Exceeding Customer and Employee Expectations in the Experience Economy
In this pre-recorded webinar, the CMOs of Avaya and Verint, along with Nancy Jamison of Frost & Sullivan, discuss strategies and technologies for evolving your business to meet the demands of customers and employees looking for seamless digital-first engagement.
>> Hello everyone, and thank you for attending today's webinar, Exceeding Customer and Employee Expectations in the Experience Economy. Before we begin, we wanted to cover a few housekeeping items. If you have any questions during the webcast, you can submit them through the Q&A panel. We will try to answer these during the webcast. We encourage you to download any resources or links that you may find useful in the related content tool. An on-demand version of the webcast will be available after the webcast. I am thrilled to introduce our esteemed panelists. Please join me in welcoming Nancy Jamison, Industry Director of Digital Transformation Practice from Frost and Sullivan, Celia Fleischaker, Chief Marketing Officer, Verint, Simon Harrison, SVP and Chief Marketing Officer from Avaya. I hope you will enjoy the engaging discussion on strategies for bridging the engagement capacity gap, and evolving your business to meet the demands of the experience economy. Nancy, take it away. >> So we're here to talk about the experience economy today. And customer experience and employee experience, we've been talking for quite a while, number of years about how the employee experience and customer experience are really intertwined. And one feeds the other, so we've been working at improving both. But what happened is that the pandemic happened, and that really, really shown a spotlight on this whole experience and really accelerated customer expectations which already had been growing, and employee expectations. And so one of the things that happened is that, I think on average now we're interacting with customers on nine channels, and that's just on average. There's a ton of them. Everything from the ones we usually use, like voice and an email in the past to everything from conversational AI and intelligent bots to IoT. And so it's just really complex and it's really difficult to handle all of this. And on top of this the changes in the pandemic that have occurred, which has made it so that customer expectations have changed, and businesses had to change along with it. And not just that, but think about how things we didn't even worry about before, contactless delivery, boxes, buy online, pickup in store, all these things that different ways of interacting with customers that were nascent. >> They're everywhere. [LAUGHTER] >> They are everywhere. And then on top of that, that also impacted employees, because now we had just this massive lift up people working at home. And a lot of those people decided, I like working at home or I don't even maybe like the way that I was working. So we have this thing called the great resignation too. >> Yes, very interesting stuff. >> So experience economy and customer expectations, what's your take on what's happened during the pandemic? >> It's interesting to consider what I think is how the pandemic accelerated things. There was a lot of change happening because of, I describe it as industry for, there's lots of perhaps have a take on what is the most change we've seen in a period of time. In the last decade, we've seen more change than any previous decade. >> And the tiers. [LAUGHTER]. >> So the pandemic just really shown a spotlight on the importance of delivering great experiences for customers. It's a way for businesses to continue to thrive and survive and to figure out new ways to growth, new ways to service, and all of these kind of things. So the experience economy really is about delivering on our promise to customers. What is a huge potential around how you can improve and let's call it quite precisely make things as effortless as possible, for people to buy the things that they want to buy, and be informed about what it is they want to buy. You need to have the most with so much data and insight now around. We leave huge digital trails based on things that we decided, the conscious biases, if we like something, we like something on Amazon site, or if we like it on Netflix, that informing AI algorithms on what to service me next, I might like. All of this data is huge. It's about trying to figure out how to turn that into insight now to then translate to those effortless experiences as part of this experience economy, analytics is central to that. So ultimately the experience economy provides a bunch of challenges for businesses. Lots of distilled, as you said, lots of channels that customers want to engage on now, and staff needs to be able to respond to now, but also huge amounts of opportunity to really deliver on something quite wonderful. >> Quite wonderful, but not even just what you buy, but customer service. >> Absolutely. >> Adding all of the AI and analytics and everything to be able to make that journey seamless whether or not you're buying something, or you're getting something repaired, or you have some kind of customer service in person or not. >> And there's lots of ways to enjoy service now. I was recently talking to a medical practice and now it's almost normal to have a video engagement if you want to speak to a doctor. And there's all kinds of cool ways in which they can help. And you feel more connected, you feel better about what's available to you. Some of the original constraints, I don't know what is necessarily like across the world. [LAUGHTER] Bu a doctor's appointment is not so easy in the UK and you got to wait and things, but how great is it? You got to have [inaudible 00:05:50] engagement and just get things solved, moved on, [OVERLAPPING] and effortless in the UK. >> I have one in two weeks. So it was a precursor to your regular appointment. And I'm going to experience telehealth for the first time. >> So that experience is what's driving your behaviors and how you want to use services and who you want to use, and that's the key thing. I don't know if Celia has got any thoughts in addition to that around the experience. >> Yeah. Thanks Simon. I definitely agree. What the pandemic did in my mind is it brought the experience to the forefront, the importance of that engagement and how you engaged with customers, and that shift that happened to digital channels. Maybe it started out of necessity, but it's become a preference and then choice. And it's been a tough two years. But like you all were talking about, it's really accelerated some changes that were happening long before the pandemic. And we just finished some really interesting research. We looked at how people were feeling about customer engagement. We talked about 2,500 or so customer engagement professionals. And the interesting thing was, the disruption is still here. We're still expecting a lot of change. And it was close to 80% that thought the challenges in 2022 with customer engagement, and this new economy and shift to digital, they're going to get even harder. And it's just thinking about how brands embrace that shift, and that change really drive other experience like you were talking about, because the technology enables you to do that. >> It's actually right. >> We do a lot of surveys at Frost as well. And so we did similar surveys on the impact of customer service during COVID, and whether or not people thought how far long they were in that transition to digital transformation. And it was something like, where 90% felt like digital transformation and improving the customer experience was at the forefront. Only about 50% even thought that they were on par with their peers. So they had just started this digital transformation journey. >> Still early. >> Yeah, it's still early. >> It's also interesting. Nothing stands still. As things evolve at such a pace in terms of the technology, I talk often about my home device, my favorite home device. And this thing is just getting more and more intelligent. [LAUGHTER] It's extraordinary. And what's amazing is I can pop over my app that's relevant to this particular home device, and I can actually use a blueprint and create my own skill to understand things that I might say, that I might want to do as well. And you consider as a business now, you're thinking about how you engage in all these channels and then perhaps how you explore the benefits of devices like that in people's lives, that are unobtrusive. If I can say to this thing, it can recommend to me, there's a half buys item in my favorites list. Brilliant, because it's already done. I've done a lot of work. I didn't hit the buy button, but it's there and I'm interested. It's half price and can I have it delivered tomorrow. [OVERLAPPING] I'm ready to say, yes, please. Now, businesses want to be able to provide that effortless experiences, so they're having to think about all these devices and wearables and things that we're using our everyday life now, as part of this experience economy. And again, provides such an extraordinary opportunity. We have an endless array of, as I said, data to power all kinds of opportunity. Your variance technology, in particular. The analytics applications and capabilities are very, very powerful. >> What I think is interesting is the importance of an application like that saying, here's what you didn't know, you needed to know. >> That's right. >> It's easy to say I will only look at these trends and based on these categories but when an application in Surface hold on a second, there's something bubbling up here and it's an opportunity and you could do something with it. That's when you start to really see the value of this huge amount of data now. >> Have been always held that mining for what's missing, especially the speech analytics like Verint. Mining for those nuggets to what's missing. >> Well, and I think you're learning. One of those ships we've seen is this move into the consumer being more in the driver's seat and they're able to use these channels as they see fit. And it puts a pressure on the brand to meet the consumer where they are. And the way that brand meets that expectation, meets that consumer is because they're able to put all this data to use and really understand, and it enables the brand not only to have a better understanding of the consumer and that it handled that experience better but they also move into real-time management of that engagement and really understanding and improving the engagement as it happens, and even what Simon was saying about being proactive in that engagement. I know that Simon had this on his favorites list. How do I make sure he realizes it's on sale and can make that purchase? >> Yeah. Predicting the outcome of an engagement. How powerful is that? If I think about this sentiment even how the customer feels. The live transcription is giving you an indication of how this person's probably not going to be as happy as we'd like him to be at the end of this engagement. [OVERLAPPING] >> How can we remove that needle? >> How can we remove that needle? Surface that to the advisor or the agent. Now you're really exploring this insurmountable amount of data again to, and I'm going to hop back to it time and time again, to improve the experience as part of this experience economy thing. >> Tom, I think we need to talk a little bit about how we got here. >> Yes. >> And because it's one of my favorites. Anything having to do with AI for decades and that baby is taking a long time to be born. What happens? Cloud happened? >> Yes. >> Cloud is like the facilitator for all of this. We had speech technologies, we had speech analytics, but to be able to put them in Cloud and have that storage and that scalability and everything, is just absolute accelerator ability to everything from conversational AI to improving employee experience through AI-powered workforce management. Which I will just segue into just one thing [LAUGHTER] that those applications are really improving that employee experience and keeping people engaged and being able to keep them from this great resignation because their work lives are being improved. >> It's a great point. So first of all, if you've got challenges with stuff and you're seeing high amounts of churn, worst-case scenario. >> Why is that? >> Is quite difficult when you consider as we've said, expanding channels and the amount that these guys have to consider taking on in their day, and how much more difficult their days may have been. So if you're going to get a high churn, good luck with your customer experience, ambitions. [LAUGHTER] You're not going to get there. >> You're going to get it. [OVERLAPPING] And you're going to lose that tribal knowledge. >> Correct, it is a huge repercussion. It's much more costly and difficult to recover from that, isn't it? But secondly, the importance of infusing AI into this thing. We can start to use predictive models to figure out ways to ensure that Nancy connects to someone just like Nancy in the contact center to form this utopian outcome potential of, hold on this target, I'm really well and it's going to be great. >> And then she's going to buy lots of stuff. [LAUGHTER] >> Exactly, she's going to buy too much, anything like me. But the importance of that then being something that you consider as part of your workforce resourcing modelling, the way you are starting to predict what it is you need and to keep those lines smooth and make sure that you've got the right people there when customers need them to be factoring in the benefits and the intelligence of this AI, that's not an easy thing. That's complexity, it's from an application perspective. But in terms of the value you create, again, effortless tramps delight every single time. People could see things as fast and easy, they'll go for that option every time. They didn't pay more for it. So it's a great point when it comes to the way that you resource these centers as part of service. Having the opportunity to be able to exploit, not just handle but exploit the potential of AI in that mix is a key part of the solution here really, is a key part of, again, figuring out how you help in this experience economy we're in. >> [OVERLAPPING] Go ahead, Simon. >> I was going to ask you. You've been in this AI analytics for a long time. How has AI and being able to scale [NOISE] and have the Cloud really helped you in helping your customers? >> There are so many applications for AI when it comes to customer engagement and especially on the workforce side as well. You've mentioned conversational AI, which is a big one. You all were just talking about the workforce and the challenges that we're facing right now from the great resignation with turnover and how do you minimize that? And AI has a role to play there. One, it starts with hiring. We're using AI with our clients in terms of how they hire and predicting who they should hire in order if they're going to be more successful, enroll, even connecting that all the way out to the customer experience feedback that you're getting so you know that this type of hire gets this type of experience level. So it's really interesting. And then once they're on board, making sure that you're using the right solutions to minimize the impact of the turnover as much as we want to minimize it, we know turnover happens especially today. So how are you using applications that have an AI-driven knowledge management? Looking at how we use quality, how we use coaching to help our agents? Real-Time Agent Assist is another one where as I was talking about earlier, in that moment, they're working with that customer, they recognize they can use analytics to understand that they're raising their voice, so their silence or silent parts within that conversation and they can alert that agents say, hey, this person's getting frustrated, how do you help them? Here's a knowledge article based on what they're asking you about. So there's so many applications that you have with AI as you're working from a workforce perspective, but also from a customer experience perspective to really elevate the interaction with the consumer. >> I think that you're rolling right into one of my hot topics that I love to talk about, which is process automation. Verint had a back force workforce automation in the contact center, going on for a long time, but like you said you apply Agent Assist where you can actually have your own little virtual agent sitting there helping you do your work. I wish I had one. [LAUGHTER] >> To really be able to assist that agent. And also we didn't even talk about this, but get rid of those tedious, error-prone parts of their job. Have that little virtual assistant go off and get information from some database where you don't have to do it and really get rid of the fatigue that can come up having to do old-fashion contact centers. >> Absolutely. Yeah, the digital buddy time thing. >> Digital buddies. >> I've seen some real animation. But you're right, you've got the business to customer and then you've got augmenting the agent experience, empowering the agent, making them feel good about what it is they're doing so that they then feel good about helping customers and the customer has that more memorable experience. There's so many real-world benefits, as Celia touched on, the technology as an enabler. And the important thing is, yes, we talk about AI all the time now, we talk about all the benefits of it. But when it comes to the use cases and how you translate that to value. We touched on customer journeys. It's going to be all about how you're enabling your customers to be able to do the things they want to do as quickly and effectively and as informed as possible. The two sides of that coin are the employees and the staff being enabled to apply that discretional effort so that they can feel good about what they're doing. And I think when you consider the varying technology in the portfolio, the way that they're deploying these applications and what you guys are writing about in terms of research, it's an exciting area. >> It is. >> There's so much. >> And sometimes its subtle. >> Yeah. >> It's incremental and it's subtle. Like, Celia, when you were talking about coaching and training and so if you can surface those points where maybe proper turn-taking isn't happening or an agent is talking over someone and then give them those little coachable edible moments. >> Bite-size, yes. >> Bite-size moments where they can take that in, but then also see change which eventually will say, I've improved, I feel better about it, I now have conquered this, right? >> Yeah. I mean, I love the point that Celia made about the hiring minutes. It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you think to yourself, hold on, I've got all these stuff I'm trying to make amazing service stuff, but have you actually considered that you hired the best people for that. It was how they're made up and how they think and how they want to work, and what their aspirations are to make sure you're working with the best opportunity formula. >> And the best fit for the job. >> Yeah. >> And also it has that downstream effect of not hiring and then, oh, it didn't work out. >> Exactly right. >> And then you have to spend all that time and effort and money. >> Using AI, let's say, and I'll think out loud, you've got an application process and you're going on a website and let say as you're filling out the website, there's a couple of key things that you grab about this person as part of the application for the job and the AI algorithm thinks, hold on, this is a really good match. I'm going to make sure they go straight through to the next step. And others, you might want to discover a bit more about them. These are the real-world opportunities. >> It speeds up the whole thing. >> Correct. And it enables the person that's being hired to feel better about things. They think it's easier and faster and all these kind of good things. >> Well, and part of that I think is process automation. So instead of the way we used to do it, you put your resume in or you maybe get this call, if you can have it screened by AI and like you said, do this checking the boxes, things, get back to them. This is where you are in queue and we're going to get back to you, and so that if it's a really good agent, you don't want them going to five different contact centers and apply and then you're slow, and then they go somewhere else. No. You want to keep them engaged in the process before they become an agent. >> Correct. And also, I'm a big fan of being brand fans. As staff join a company, you want them to be a fan of the brand. And if you're figuring that as part of the onboarding, then you are now much [LAUGHTER] better positioned to make sure you've got that experience thing, not seeing the high chair and everything else. Sorry, Celia, did you want to add some thoughts there? >> Yeah. Actually, I love what you just said because brand plays such a role here. Your brand now is people and how they hire and recruit and onboard. You've got how you appear through these conversational AI. In digital channels, your brand is much larger and it's different. It's measured differently than it was years ago. And the experience you provide through all these different outlets becomes your brand. And it's so important to drive what you were talking about, like no friction in these things, to be able to get the best people to the top of the pile to get them hired quickly because it's all a reflection of your brand. >> Correct. And actually, the thing, when you think about it, scarily, [BACKGROUND] [LAUGHTER] probably not scarily if you're the right brand. But the opportunity for staff to publicize what it's like to experience working in your company, Glassdoor and Crowd, and all these publicly. Now you can go, what's it like to work in this company? And your younger generations, they starting out with a shopping list of, I'm going to figure out where I want work. >> Where I want to work. >> You want to make sure that you are attracting the best people, at the right place in their time and where they are in terms of their careers and things. Again, you can argue things have become more complex. I would argue, we've seen far more opportunity that we could never have imagined before to now exploit the power of this insurmountable data with applications like what we tend to provide perhaps together, Verint and Avaya. >> And the where that you just talked about is really interesting because the where has changed in terms of how you experience an organization. And especially when we think about contact centers and people providing customer service and customer engagement. There are a lot of times still, and expected to be for a while, work from home, work from anywhere. And so that technology that they're interacting with, how they engage with each other in the organization has really shifted and plays a much larger role. >> Oh, absolutely. And I'm a massive fan of, originally we talked about hybrid working. I might have a slightly controversial view on that, it seems to me it's a little bit more regimental. I do one Monday, Wednesday, Fridays. I'm more of a fan of the work from anywhere and actually empowering staff to work where they feel great. So if you've got a favorite spot in the kitchen, where you enjoy the warmth from the sun in the mornings and your day starts great because of that with your coffee, you're going to be more productive, you're going to get more done, you're going to feel good about the brand because you're enabled to do that or your favorite spot on the couch. So in this economy, why not empower staff to be able to do that with the right kind of technology. We advise sales and technology. We've got lots of people out there that we support in this way. Actually, to your point earlier about the huge challenge with retention of staff and, I hate to use that phrase, great resignation. [LAUGHTER] >> I was going to say earlier, we need the great unresignation. >> Exactly right. >> And speaking to what you just said and speaking about Verint, that when you start looking at, say the hybrid workforce. [OVERLAPPING] >> Let's call it what it is. >> You can work wherever you want to work. But one of the cool things about both the Cloud and all of this technology that we're promoting is that we've opened up the doors to people who might not be able to work in a brick-and-mortar. They may be disabled, they may be retired, or they may be a mom or dad that's a stay-at-home and they can only work for a couple of hours. And using the AI-powered hiring and then the very flexible workforce management scheduling, I mean, this is awesome. We're going to have the great unresignation. I'm going to put a stake on the ground. >> I love that. I love that a lot. >> [OVERLAPPING] [inaudible 00:25:23] >> Yeah. Because you're right. You're highlighting the fact that, how amazing is it because of this ability and recognition that people really are productive. They really do feel good about themselves. They're feeling great, they feel empowered to create those great experiences when they can work in that sunny kitchen. >> [OVERLAPPING] Well, maybe I only want to work a couple of hours a day. >> Exactly right. But now, we can offer that to everyone with the benefit of identifying early on in that recruitment process part of the onboarding. We now have the opportunity to have a broader array or a sample of people that could fit that mode perfectly. >> And there's another side to this too, which goes back to the analytics, of course, where it's not just how you hire them, it's what you're hiring them for. So you need to be able to train them across this breadth of channels because obviously, doing SMS is very different than voice for a whole bunch of reasons we don't have time to go into. But be able to understand the skillset and match it and be able to use all those coaching, all that training and all of that information doesn't cover what are they good at? I mean, Celia, what are the things that you've been discovering through hiring and these packages? >> I think that's a big debate going on right now. I think in contact centers this idea about do you have agents that go across channels. Do they specialize in certain channels, and you're right there. You have the flexibility to figure out what works best depending on the philosophy a company has. But it's a very different skill set or can be, like you said, to handle messaging and going through WhatsApp, which we've seen grow tremendously right now as a channel to interact with a brand on versus voice versus other opportunities. >> So I think it's a company decision, but yeah. >> And there's those guidelines too. So for example, if you have a really good voice agent and they're working a five-day week and you know they like to chat, but maybe you know from your analytics that they get the slump on Friday, so why not say, "Okay, we're going to do voice for four days and we're going to let you do chat on Fridays," your down thing because you don't want to have to engage through the voice channel with. There's all angles to this. >> When it comes to deploying a ball, actually, isn't often the candidate that's obvious to most businesses, "Let's just give it all these engagements and contexts into to a ball. It tends to be a lot of the time that you hear that recommendation, "Oh yeah, let's give the easy stuff to ball and give the more challenging stuff to the staff" and I've always been against that. >> That's right. >> I'll tell you why? >> We talked about this. >> Yeah, we talked about it. [OVERLAPPING] >> Sometimes you want them to have a little bit [OVERLAPPING] downtime to their own , always got the hard stuff, right? >> Yeah, you take all the easy stuff and give it to a ball. Now you've created a because all they've got is hard, difficult, hard, difficult all through the day. [OVERLAPPING] >> Analytics help us. >> Exactly right. And to your point, what we've now got the opportunity to do, is to be more clever with the availability of staff getting the more engaging and interesting things and having an off day or a different day, by some motor days that's going to keep them engaged and make them feel empowered and make them feel good about the brand. It's all about feelings. It's all about how they feel and how they feel about working for this company, how they're engaged to do what they need to for their customers so that they can make the customers feel great. It can be completely offset or disrupted by something as straightforward as people perceive it to be, as just a blowing this ball to make it easier for customers use. It's quite an interesting thing. It blocks an opportunity. [OVERLAPPING] >> It's way too complex. But interesting. >> Very interesting, always interesting. [LAUGHTER] >> So I'm just switching gears a little bit here because I want to know for myself. So I've been a big proponent of your partnership for a long time [NOISE] because it's so deep that there's things that come out of it, it's like 1 plus 1 is 4. So can you talk a little bit about the partnership and what things have come out of it? >> Yeah. Well, Avaya and Verint have done some really rather wonderful things together. Of course, we've been working together for many years, I think it's part of the evolution of the partnership. I think it's fun to say we've co-innovated together and we've been reciprocal in innovation and we've exploited the power and benefits of our mutual technologies coming together. I'd also argue that we'd been quite focused on extensibility by design, not just Verint getting along on their roadmap, and we're going along with ours and we're just going to try and make these things bumped together. >> And you integrate them. >> Yeah. We're thinking ahead about how we can make it so that that particular application is just part of the application with the desktop provided by a virus. As you said, 1 plus 1 equals 4, 5, 10, whatever it might be. And so we have seen tremendous success, we've seen lots of great customers successes together. And I think as a partnership is so reciprocal, received such value in the way that technology has come together. I'm hoping you're going to say the same thing. [LAUGHTER] >> It'll be a real let down if I didn't. And I love this partnership because you've got these two industry leaders. We've been in the game for a long time. We're so focused on the customer and what that connection with a customer brings to a company or a brand. And just like Simon said, that we're going to market together, is in our DNA, and we've co-innovated together, we worked together so well with customers. And that really is a case of where that partnership brings such great synergy and such a huge benefit for the customers that we work with. >> I think it's also important to recognize that when two companies are trying to deliver technology that's so complimentary, then they're thinking the same things about the future of the industry, the trends and the way the world is unfolding. We're both very focused about realizing the potential and power of Cloud as you touched on Nancy here. The real thing that changed your value, that it wasn't predictive models getting more intelligent, it was just compute and storage. So realizing the power of that ecosystem, realizing the power of being able to experience built together, using design thinking, realizing the benefits of the API economy, and all of these other things, the parts are important to consider in this strategy, are things that we tend to be thinking the same things about. That's a big deal and it can be understated actually as part of a partnership. You can just assume that they're experts in this and we're experts in this. And again, I'm sure Celia would agree, but we're both thinking about how this experience economy provides so much opportunity for businesses and how we can make things so effortless for customers. Both are now key in our minds in terms of what we're innovating together. >> So on that note you're making effortless for businesses, but what are the things that businesses should be looking out for in all of this? Because it's like drinking through the fire hose. What are you telling your customers both. I'm with Celia, how about you first? >> I think one of the things to think about and we've touched on it a little bit in the conversation, it's how broad this space is? And when customers come and start thinking about getting a solution and they're changing out what they use technology-wise for customer engagement, they've got to think more broadly. It's not just the contact center, it's the branches in the back-office, it's all the channels. And so when they think about what they're putting in, how open is that solution? How well does it work like Verint with Avaya to give them a cohesive system, a comprehensive system where that data and those silos are connected and they can really drive insights and decisions by pulling all of their customer engagement data together through analytics. And it's such a powerful set of technology, it's a broad set of technology, and so we're encouraging people not to look at individual silos. It is easy to just throw up a chat bot or something like that. But the hard part and the more impactful and valuable part for your customers is bringing that into the overall customer engagement solution that you have. >> That is such a great point. The days of the old bricks and mortar, factory floor contact center are over. It's about the services team, the customer experiences team is part of that digital workplace. And it's so important to break down the silos to be thinking about your data strategy, to exploit all the touch points across a business as part of your customer experience ambition. That is something that we do together, that's something we help both together customers to realize the importance of them and value of, and that not least, in terms of the technology and the way we're connecting these technologies too. Again, the point about bots, everyone's got this grand ambition, but the first question you have to ask is, what is it that you've got that's going to train these models and make them better in the domain? >> [OVERLAPPING] And then why are you doing it? >> Exactly, why are you doing it? Why? Exactly. Right. >> You don't put a bot in for bots sake, and it has to be connected. And also going back to, we need this cross-organizational support, so when you're taking these insights, you're going to feed them up across the organization to then figure out the strategy of why you're automating something or why you're putting a new channel. >> Absolutely right. Figuring the data and the insights is so powerful and perhaps in a lot many ways, we can still consider the underutilized. You talked about how digital transformation right at the beginning is still quite slow in terms of progress, there's still so much opportunity and potential and I think together, Avaya and Verint are helping businesses to, like I've mentioned about the analytics application, to discover what it is they didn't know they needed to know, and not being brought to the forefront based on helping them perhaps to understand the real potential in this experience economy. >> So it's really clear that Verint and Avaya, that you're going to move the needle on this experience economy and moving that digital transformation forward. And I just said it's been really fun talking to you both about this, and I look forward to further debates and discussions with you both. >> Always room for a debate [OVERLAPPING] and other things a lot. Together, as you said, we're making a difference in this world. And that is important to be in this world, the way the world is unfolding. It's been a fantastic chat for me actually. We really enjoyed it. So Nancy and Celia, really appreciate your having me along in particular. >> Yeah. Thank you both so much, really appreciated that. It was great chatting with you.